peeps
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Post by peeps on Jan 4, 2014 23:31:36 GMT -5
friarfaithful... there are actually a lot of people that know exactly what happened. it was bad, but not something we haven't all seen before.
FWIW, the sex part was consensual.
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Post by friarfaithful on Jan 4, 2014 23:34:56 GMT -5
So what you "know" is that the Providence Police didn't get involved.....and? What exactly does that prove? Unless you're saying that the only thing that should get a student dismissed from Providence College is a crime. So cheating would be ok with you? You're not owed an asnwer nor should the College give you one (or any other fan for that matter). The law is quite clear and if they violate the law they can be sued. Educate yourself...take a read: "The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. ยง 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99) is a Federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education. Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record" www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.htmlSo you believe the school should release the information to satisfy you and fans like you so they can open themselves up to a huge lawsuit. Brilliant....simply brilliant. Nope I don't need to know anything, other than that a crime was not committed, since no police - Providence or Rhode Island State police were involved. (projo reported both denying any contact with school). Unless there is some other law enforcement entity that I'm forgetting??? This is called common sense. If a murder happened on PCs campus would you same folks be hiding behind the "student handbook" in saying the school can do its own thing and not contact police. Of course not. In this case we can surmise a crime, at least a felony, was either not committed or there was weak evidence of such, thus the school kept it "in house". That's all I need to know. Now we have lost a top 50 recruit. I hope he goes on to have a strong career. And I hope he sues the school for millions, as other railroaded athletes have been doing when accused of felonies that never make it to police but they are given significant penalties from school boards using much lower standards of presumption of innocence than the court system. So you freely admit you have no idea what really happened and your entire reaction to this situation is based upon rumor, speculation, and conjecture. You also seem to be suggesting that PC should base it's student discipline on prevailing state laws and not it's own values. Brilliant.
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Post by dmac80 on Jan 4, 2014 23:37:13 GMT -5
Nope I don't need to know anything, other than that a crime was not committed, since no police - Providence or Rhode Island State police were involved. (projo reported both denying any contact with school). Unless there is some other law enforcement entity that I'm forgetting??? This is called common sense. If a murder happened on PCs campus would you same folks be hiding behind the "student handbook" in saying the school can do its own thing and not contact police. Of course not. In this case we can surmise a crime, at least a felony, was either not committed or there was weak evidence of such, thus the school kept it "in house". That's all I need to know. Now we have lost a top 50 recruit. I hope he goes on to have a strong career. And I hope he sues the school for millions, as other railroaded athletes have been doing when accused of felonies that never make it to police but they are given significant penalties from school boards using much lower standards of presumption of innocence than the court system. So you freely admit you have no idea what really happened and your entire reaction to this situation is based upon rumor, speculation, and conjecture. You also seem to be suggesting that PC should base it's student discipline on prevailing state laws and not it's own values. Brilliant. Nope. I am responding to your post about fans not having a right to know what happened. I don't really care is the point. I know a crime either was not committed, or the evidence wasn't there to even bother calling police. That's called common sense. No need for any details other than the police didn't even need to pick up their phone, because the administrators at PC didn't see it fit to bother calling them. Again, I'll challenge you directly, give me a scenario where there is no crime, that justifies a full year suspension, and the loss of a top recruit. I'll respond to your scenarios.
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Post by friarfaithful on Jan 4, 2014 23:39:13 GMT -5
friarfaithful... there are actually a lot of people that know exactly what happened. it was bad, but not something we haven't all seen before. FWIW, the sex part was consensual. Well, if they know "exactly" what happened then why not post it if it's true? I have a feeling "a lot' of people know the rumors. Did it violate student rules?
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peeps
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Posts: 224
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Post by peeps on Jan 4, 2014 23:42:56 GMT -5
yes it violated student rules in the general way that you can violate "conduct". it did not break a specific rule.
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Post by friarfaithful on Jan 4, 2014 23:51:33 GMT -5
So you freely admit you have no idea what really happened and your entire reaction to this situation is based upon rumor, speculation, and conjecture. You also seem to be suggesting that PC should base it's student discipline on prevailing state laws and not it's own values. Brilliant. Nope. I am responding to your post about fans not having a right to know what happened. I don't really care is the point. I know a crime either was not committed, or the evidence wasn't there to even bother calling police. That's called common sense. No need for any details other than the police didn't even need to pick up their phone, because the administrators at PC didn't see it fit to bother calling them. Again, I'll challenge you directly, give me a scenario where there is no crime, that justifies a full year suspension, and the loss of a top recruit. I'll respond to your scenarios. So a top recruit deserves special treatment or should all students be treated equally? If you want one scenario...here's one. Cheating. If Harvard can do it, so can Providence College: "The 2012 Harvard cheating scandal involved approximately 125 Harvard College students who were investigated for cheating on the take-home final examination of the spring 2012 edition of Government 1310: "Introduction to Congress". Harvard announced the investigation publicly on August 30, 2012.[1] Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay M. Harris described the case as "unprecedented in its scope and magnitude".[2][3][4] The Harvard Crimson ranked the scandal as the news story most important to Harvard in 2012.[5] A teaching fellow noticed similarities between a small number of exams during grading in May 2012.[1][4][6] The course's professor brought the case to the Harvard College Administrative Board, which reviewed all final exams, leading to individual cases against nearly half of the 279 students enrolled in the class, almost two percent of the undergraduate student body.[1][4][6] The administrative board completed its investigation in December 2012.[7] On February 1, 2013 Harvard revealed that "somewhat more than half" of the students, estimated at 70 were forced to withdraw.[8][9] Potential discipline for academic dishonesty includes a year's forced withdrawal."en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal
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Post by dmac80 on Jan 5, 2014 0:00:58 GMT -5
Nope. I am responding to your post about fans not having a right to know what happened. I don't really care is the point. I know a crime either was not committed, or the evidence wasn't there to even bother calling police. That's called common sense. No need for any details other than the police didn't even need to pick up their phone, because the administrators at PC didn't see it fit to bother calling them. Again, I'll challenge you directly, give me a scenario where there is no crime, that justifies a full year suspension, and the loss of a top recruit. I'll respond to your scenarios. So a top recruit deserves special treatment or should all students be treated equally? If you want one scenario...here's one. Cheating. If Harvard can do it, so can Providence College: "The 2012 Harvard cheating scandal involved approximately 125 Harvard College students who were investigated for cheating on the take-home final examination of the spring 2012 edition of Government 1310: "Introduction to Congress". Harvard announced the investigation publicly on August 30, 2012.[1] Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay M. Harris described the case as "unprecedented in its scope and magnitude".[2][3][4] The Harvard Crimson ranked the scandal as the news story most important to Harvard in 2012.[5] A teaching fellow noticed similarities between a small number of exams during grading in May 2012.[1][4][6] The course's professor brought the case to the Harvard College Administrative Board, which reviewed all final exams, leading to individual cases against nearly half of the 279 students enrolled in the class, almost two percent of the undergraduate student body.[1][4][6] The administrative board completed its investigation in December 2012.[7] On February 1, 2013 Harvard revealed that "somewhat more than half" of the students, estimated at 70 were forced to withdraw.[8][9] Potential discipline for academic dishonesty includes a year's forced withdrawal."en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandalWrong. Projo already publicly reported that an 'incident' occurred and this was not academic related, so we can rule that out. I don't want to know scenarios that we can rule out like drugs or academics, because we already know publicly that some incident occurred and we know publicly that it did not rise to the level of even contacting authorities. So I'm still waiting on an 'incident' that is not criminal that allows what we have seen unfold. Go ahead...
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Post by friarfaithful on Jan 5, 2014 0:07:59 GMT -5
So a top recruit deserves special treatment or should all students be treated equally? If you want one scenario...here's one. Cheating. If Harvard can do it, so can Providence College: "The 2012 Harvard cheating scandal involved approximately 125 Harvard College students who were investigated for cheating on the take-home final examination of the spring 2012 edition of Government 1310: "Introduction to Congress". Harvard announced the investigation publicly on August 30, 2012.[1] Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay M. Harris described the case as "unprecedented in its scope and magnitude".[2][3][4] The Harvard Crimson ranked the scandal as the news story most important to Harvard in 2012.[5] A teaching fellow noticed similarities between a small number of exams during grading in May 2012.[1][4][6] The course's professor brought the case to the Harvard College Administrative Board, which reviewed all final exams, leading to individual cases against nearly half of the 279 students enrolled in the class, almost two percent of the undergraduate student body.[1][4][6] The administrative board completed its investigation in December 2012.[7] On February 1, 2013 Harvard revealed that "somewhat more than half" of the students, estimated at 70 were forced to withdraw.[8][9] Potential discipline for academic dishonesty includes a year's forced withdrawal."en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandalWrong. Projo already publicly reported that an 'incident' occurred and this was not academic related, so we can rule that out. I don't want to know scenarios that we can rule out like drugs or academics, because we already know publicly that some incident occurred and we know publicly that it did not rise to the level of even contacting authorities. So I'm still waiting on an 'incident' that is not criminal that allows what we have seen unfold. Go ahead... You said...and I quote...."give me a scenario where there is no crime, that justifies a full year suspension". I did just that...exactly that. What the Projo reported is irrelevant. I answered your objection completely.
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peeps
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Posts: 224
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Post by peeps on Jan 5, 2014 0:17:17 GMT -5
actually your scenario has students being forced to withdraw from school. not 2 of 3 students being suspended non academic activities. austin and bullock were suspended from basketball, but allowed to stay at school and practice. there has been no punishment for the girl.
if these 2 did not play basketball... we can surmise that there would have been no penalty. they are being treated differently.
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Post by dmac80 on Jan 5, 2014 0:21:01 GMT -5
Wrong. Projo already publicly reported that an 'incident' occurred and this was not academic related, so we can rule that out. I don't want to know scenarios that we can rule out like drugs or academics, because we already know publicly that some incident occurred and we know publicly that it did not rise to the level of even contacting authorities. So I'm still waiting on an 'incident' that is not criminal that allows what we have seen unfold. Go ahead... You said...and I quote...."give me a scenario where there is no crime, that justifies a full year suspension". I did just that...exactly that. What the Projo reported is irrelevant. I answered your objection completely. I thought what I wanted was implied, but guess I could have been clearer. We know a few things, because the media has told us a few little bits of info, when they're not respectfully obeying PC orders not to ask: *The police -providence or state were never even contacted. * Drugs and academics were not involved *Some 'incident occurred' (forget if projo said on or off campus). These are facts not in dispute and publicly reported. Since we know all that, what's the point of bringing up a scenario like cheating that we know did not happen. I want to know, with the few nuggets we do know (posted above), a scenario where a crime was not committed that justifies PCs actions. Swing away.
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Post by friarfaithful on Jan 5, 2014 0:24:00 GMT -5
actually your scenario has students being forced to withdraw from school. not 2 of 3 students being suspended non academic activities. austin and bullock were suspended from basketball, but allowed to stay at school and practice. there has been no punishment for the girl. if these 2 did not play basketball... we can surmise that there would have been no penalty. they are being treated differently. Exactly...so the punishment was worse in my example. Obviously, this punishment would allow for the possibility of lessor punishments for lesser infractions. But you're speculating again on what would happen based upon conjecture.
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peeps
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Posts: 224
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Post by peeps on Jan 5, 2014 0:35:00 GMT -5
father shanley wanted all 3 expelled. the 2 basketball players have since been suspended from basketball for the year. nothing happened to the girl. the basketball players are being treated differently based on their stature. that is not conjecture. it is fact.
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Post by friarfaithful on Jan 5, 2014 0:35:48 GMT -5
You said...and I quote...."give me a scenario where there is no crime, that justifies a full year suspension". I did just that...exactly that. What the Projo reported is irrelevant. I answered your objection completely. I thought what I wanted was implied, but guess I could have been clearer. We know a few things, because the media has told us a few little bits of info, when they're not respectfully obeying PC orders not to ask....the police -providence or state were never even contacted. And that drugs and academics were not involved, and lastly some 'incident occurred' (forget if projo said on or off campus). Since we know all that, what's the point of bringing up a scenario like cheating that we know did not happen. I want to know, with the few nuggets we do know (posted above), a scenario where a crime was not committed that justifies PCs actions. Swing away. First of all, why would u assume that since something is reported in the Projo that it is true? I know that they've been wrong in the past, why would you assume that they are right in this case? Also, why would you assume that "academics" would be related to cheating? When I hear "academics" I think of grades and I think most people would think that as well. So again, you don't "know" what it is and what it isn't.....you're basing your reactions on unsourced news stories and your own interpretations of these unsourced news stories. So you agree that cheating is a valid reason to suspend someone....well, thats good. So you agree that just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean that a College can't suspend someone for a year. That's good to know as well. Does PC have the right to determine it's rules of conduct for it's students or not?
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Post by friarfaithful on Jan 5, 2014 0:41:57 GMT -5
father shanley wanted all 3 expelled. the 2 basketball players have since been suspended from basketball for the year. nothing happened to the girl. the basketball players are being treated differently based on their stature. that is not conjecture. it is fact. So let me get this straight......the President of the College wanted them all expelled but then none of them get expelled. Makes perfect sense. I'm curious....were you privy to the actual internal investigation? If not, where did you get your information from? Just for the record, what were these 3 individuals accused of in this "incident"....sexual misconduct I, sexual misconduct II, sexual exploitation, or sexual harassment?
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peeps
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Posts: 224
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Post by peeps on Jan 5, 2014 0:48:07 GMT -5
it's actually an offense on the page just before that FF.
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