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Post by drairf on Jan 7, 2014 20:41:11 GMT -5
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Post by wtm97 on Jan 8, 2014 6:27:27 GMT -5
Well Brendan McGair has certainly taken the gloves off here. It is almost surreal to read these words - here are some - read the whole thing...
WOW.
OUCH.
YEP.
AHEM.
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Post by thumper on Jan 8, 2014 7:42:20 GMT -5
This is my take after reading that article. The following is what I emailed a casual Friar fan, updating her:
There two sides to every coin.
Some would argue the freshmen got off lightly. Two of the 7 on the Council adjudicating the player's indiscetions wanted them expelled. But they were allowed to stay in school while not being allowed in to play basketball. They did not lose a year of eligibility (essentially they are taking a forced redshirt to realize their mistake and grow up). Fact is, without the details coming out as the school is bound by federal privacy laws, the freshmen screwed up big-time. They also violated the school's Code of Conduct. At the beginning of every year, all freshmen are given a copy of the Code of Conduct Handbook. In addition, the basketball team, in light of the Mondy/Lacy/Still fiasco, was told that they would be held to high standards as eyes were on them. Cooley made several speeches proclaiming "the new sheriff in town mantra".
So, who got hurt. Bullock is suspended for the year. The girl involved has left the school. And Austin, one of the most-touted recruits in decades to come to PC, has transferred.
The fans will tell you they are the real victims. But they are being selfish, putting winning ahead of acting responsibly.
Cooley defended the players and, with the AD Driscoll, pleaded for forgiveness and leniency. My insiders have confirmed to me that Cooley is hissed. Who knows if he gets his panties in a bunch and leaves sooner than his recently-extended contract. The dream school might not look so dreamy to him anymore. Further, who knows what fallout there is on the recruiting trail. But what Cooley should realize is that he is back home coaching in the city he grew up in and being paid VERY HANDSOMELY, especially since he has not brought a team to the NCAA dance in his eight years as a head coach (Fairfield and PC, last time he went was as an assistant at BC under Al Skinner). While he has yet to see one recruit actually get on and stay on the floor in his first three years except for Henton (Fortune was a Keno recruit and I'm not counting the two transfers, Harris and Desrosiers ... though they should count as Cooley recruits), we have an exceptional group of recruits new year with size coming in next year. We also still have 2-3 slots open which will be filled by a PG and a Shooting Guard. If Cooley left, he would be breaking his promise to those kids.
Yes, the administration is also taking a huge hit on this issue. Father Shanley will take the heat, protecting the Council that ruled on the freshmen. The "fans" are out for his head claiming he is not a supporter of PC basketball. Nothing could be further from the truth, having socialized several times with Father Shanley and talked basketball. But again, privacy laws bind the school to keep its mouth shut and the "fans" need a scapegoat. Donations to both athletics and the school will suffer. So will ticket sales.
But, in the end, what is more important ... the basketball program, winning, Ed Cooley, the irresponsible freshmen players OR the College and its image as a Catholic institution? For anyone that has entered Harkins Hall freshmen year, the answer is clear. The school and its reputation will be here long after this season ends. And remember, this declaration is coming from myself, arguably one of the biggest PC basketball fans around.
Tough times at PC.
PIZZA, SODA, GRINDERS!!!
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mikemc
Friar Fanatic
Posts: 3,241
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Post by mikemc on Jan 8, 2014 7:49:00 GMT -5
"Fact is, without the details coming out as the school is bound by federal privacy laws, the freshmen screwed up big-time."
If the details are not coming out, how is it fact the freshman screwed up big-time?? Screwed up big-time is all relative to who is looking at the discretion, especially since no outside authority was brought in to investigate, unlike the UTEP betting situation in which the FBI was called in to investigate.
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Post by thumper on Jan 8, 2014 8:05:27 GMT -5
"Fact is, without the details coming out as the school is bound by federal privacy laws, the freshmen screwed up big-time." If the details are not coming out, how is it fact the freshman screwed up big-time?? Screwed up big-time is all relative to who is looking at the discretion, especially since no outside authority was brought in to investigate, unlike the UTEP betting situation in which the FBI was called in to investigate. Yes, it is relative, but that is the way I looked at it. And my mother, God rest her soul, would have said that I screwed up big-time if something like that had happened to me the years I roamed the Smith Hill campus. Big-time. PIZZA, SODA, GRINDERS!!! |
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Post by TheInfoMan on Jan 8, 2014 8:24:54 GMT -5
And my mother, God rest her soul, would have said that I screwed up big-time if something like that had happened to me the years I roamed the Smith Hill campus. Big-time. I would have been taken behind the wood shed. But alas Thumper, teaching personal responsibility is not in vogue anymore. Self-gratification rules. |
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Post by wtm97 on Jan 8, 2014 9:54:05 GMT -5
Applause to McGair for a hard hitting article that puts a lot of what ‘people are thinking/wondering’ right out there on the table. He hits many points others might gloss over even as they are right there and unavoidable –especially now in the glare of the Austin departure. Seems that is something many here didn’t want to consider as a reality yet others, (me among), felt he was gonzo once the final decision of a year long suspension was (finally) rendered.
Even like so many who have invested much in allegiance and loyalty to our Friar program for a long time, the fallout here from the stand taken by PC was inevitable – that within the context of all the previous and very serious incidents that have befallen us over and over - especially in recent years.
Without knowing the nitty-gritty here, (and I suspect very few really do know), if I were among the Austin family/support network I too would have advised him to leave…and that decision extends beyond his guilt or innocence – it is simply an objective take on what awaited his future and return to PC on so many levels. Why face and deal with that when so many other options exist?
McGair rips open the wounds here; FriarTown faces the scars and healing both short and long term. This is way beyond falling short once again this has many serious implications on many levels that will remain.
Meanwhile, short-term, our present remaining team needs to find a way to make adjustments and play decent basketball while avoiding the distractions. That alone is a daunting task – hopefully the NOVA debacle was the low point and some measure of respectability and competitiveness will be restored.
How to rebound, recover and move forward from this merits some careful and coordinated approaches from many within both the Athletic and Administrative leadership at Providence College. It is that severe with many down-line elemental implications that damage control that must be implemented. They need to recognize this and devleop some set of pro-active strategies to not only protect this major investment but also to squarely incorporate those principles now firmly at the forefront.
PC should consider investing and engaging in some outside (objective) consultant PR/damage control type to assist in this effort.
Why? Because it is that serious IMO.
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Post by TheInfoMan on Jan 8, 2014 10:13:50 GMT -5
One paradigm that no one questions any longer is the so-called privacy laws. In the old days everything was out in the open. Now due to court decisions everything is hidden, except to the NSA who snoops on everyone 24/7. I for one (and probably only) preferred the old days. I am an open book.
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Post by diehardfriar on Jan 8, 2014 11:04:59 GMT -5
so seven 20 something students decided our fate in all of this?
U have got to be kidding me
I've been going to The Civic Center before any of them were friggin born
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Post by friarbroadcaster on Jan 8, 2014 11:13:28 GMT -5
We have to keep in mind that Cooley is indeed playing with the hand he has been dealt. I also like that McGair points out how some of these issues - Ledo's partial qualifier status, Dunn's injury, Sidiki's mental health, and I will throw in Kiwi with his high school transcript to be nice to the kid - were out of Cooley's control and really had their fates sealed due to poor management by prep schools, the people that surround these kids, the mismanagement of an injury that happened in March 2012, etc. Those things are out of Cooley's hands.
The two lines that hit me were: "You can urge the crowd to get involved until your arms fall off and make promises about the heights you believe you can climb until you’re blue in the face, but if you’re not performing well, that rah-rah mentality is seen as nothing more than empty promises. At that point, the head coach becomes a piñata."
I have had my share of conversations with frustrated - and rightfully so - fans who think Cooley is a great salesman who, as one fan put: "Always says he has the money orders for his boss, but never brings them in." This fan is essentially saying Cooley says he has all of this great talent but they do not see the floor - That is this fans' perception. I do not own that, just to be clear.
I can appreciate the entire fan base feeling betrayed to some extent and downright angry with the administration. I think it goes to the heart that PC fans understood the risks with a Ledo and how just getting him back on campus after the decommit from PC under Keno Davis was a true achievement. Ledo was being pulled in every direction, almost blackmailed to a certain degree by ND Prep. (the full story is just so entertaining but also sad) There were some administrators who did not want to let Ledo in because of his academic history and the number of high schools involved. I have no issue with an academic representative feeling this way.
Fans can even appreciate Sidiki and his issues and thinking "Well, Ed is taking a chance on an Arizona player who wants to play closer to home and has top-100 status." We all said it was a terrific job by the staff. Who doesn't take that risk? But the risk came at the extent of having to deal - once again - with some administrators being upset with letting him into the school.
Academics are important, attitude, perception...all of it.
So now you come to this "situation" which was far more than one night on a weekend. So now we have Austin and Bullock dealing with the very same administration who has this long list of issues. None of them directed at Austin or Bullock, but at Cooley and the program. Ledo, Sidiki, Kiwi, Henton's issue over the summer, and even throw in the Still/Lacy situation because of the severity factor. Wrap that all up with what is obviously a "They said, she said" and you have the judge and jury of Providence College weighing out the past transgressions of a program and putting them on a docket for Austin and Bullock to face - even though they did not have anything to do with these past issues. And in some ways you can Austin and Bullock were in the wrong situation at the wrong school because of the people they were going to sit in front of and make their defense.
Henton's case was public, yet the details are still hazy. But it went to the police, the situation was handled, processed, and then dismissed. The college let that be it and moved on.
I have heard Ed Cooley wanted some form of public authority involved in this case. I have heard he knew that if it happened, they would not find anything. Nothing that was criminal, nothing that would warrant arrest. So now you have a coach who potentially wants this, two young men saying "we did not do this!" and they stuck to their guns throughout the process, never budging at the thought of guilt and/or compromise, only exoneration.
Providence College - in the eyes of these two young men - had become a system that was similar to one they had probably grown up knowing existed in the public courts where certain people are seen a certain way and given leniency or harsh penalty for their actions. So how can you blame Austin for leaving? Cooley being upset? Bullock weighing his options before sitting in silence behind the team bench with a suit on like a defendant in court. Every time he walks into the Dunk he is sitting in a defendants chair, and he is judged by everyone who comes to watch the Friars. Whether on his side, or firmly on the school's side: These two young men will be seen as guilty, even if they have really been innocent this whole time.
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Post by friara on Jan 8, 2014 11:24:48 GMT -5
This incident displays the structural inadequeices at PC when it comes to athletics. One of the things that Bryant did when it went Division I was put a lot more resources into its women's center. They do workshops for new athletes and veterans that go over all of the pitfalls that can happen in college dorms when alcohol, drugs, and sex create bad decisions. They have direct contact with all coaches and athletic department officials in best practices for preventing these kind of problems.
PC doesn't even have a Women's Center. I understand the religious issue, but you can be a religious institution and understand 21st century issues when it comes to teenagers. This girl in the midst of all this...did she have any counsel or advisor in student life? Or just an academic advisor? Did she have any support network for her or did she just have the option of going straight to the administatoln's judicial process?
This is a structural issue at the school that deserves far more of an examination.
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Post by friarfaithful on Jan 8, 2014 12:21:30 GMT -5
It's very sad to see fans of this program more concerned with winning then in manitaining the Catholic identity of Providence College.
Does Ed Cooley think that "forgiveness" doesn't include accepting responsibility for one's actions? I think he is confusing forgiveness
with getting off scot-free.
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Post by friara on Jan 8, 2014 12:28:58 GMT -5
The one problem I have is that if the offense were worthy of a year long basketball suspension but no suspension from academics, wouldn't a semester full suspension have sufficed? If they were both suspended for the rest of the first semester and allowed to return after exams were over, would not the penalty be of the same gravity? Would not the school, the players, the girl, the coach, and the heads of administration be better off?
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Post by thewalk on Jan 8, 2014 12:34:23 GMT -5
Friarbroadcaster - Ledo/Sidiki/Kiwi were all known risks prior to setting foot on campus..."we" were ok with cooley taking those risks b/c our program sucks and it was a quick(er) way back....how he punted Anderson and took Kiwi gets more mind boggling by the minute...i know friar a - anderson wouldn't have helped (but as a jr he's averaging 16 and 5...and shooting over 50%)...SO with the exception of Dunn and this latest debacle, the other 3 weren't too hard to predict....
If 7 students decided on their fate, i will be extremely hissed...especially if the make up of the group is in line with the student body (60% female i believe)...and i have 3 daughters...
I have heard Ed Cooley wanted some form of public authority involved in this case. I have heard he knew that if it happened, they would not find anything. Nothing that was criminal, nothing that would warrant arrest. So now you have a coach who potentially wants this, two young men saying "we did not do this!" and they stuck to their guns throughout the process, never budging at the thought of guilt and/or compromise, only exoneration.....are you saying that no crime was committed b/c they weren't charged and nobody went to the police?...much different from my version.
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Post by friara on Jan 8, 2014 12:49:02 GMT -5
walk, we all know Anderson would have been a big help this year and last year my issue is I he would have stuck around . He would not have played as a freshman and he would have seen and heard about Dunn, Ledo, and Fortune. I would assume that if Coleman left to pursue other avenues, Anderson would have taken off, too.
In short, I don't think there was any way for Cooleybto survive this tidal wave of bad news.
I will also say it is easier for me to live with it knowing we have 3 recruits coming in that chose us over schools that are not in the MAAC, OVC, and NEC....big difference between how I feel now versus when Keno was bringing in Marcus Crider type players and trying to speed up the game against Louisville with them.
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