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Post by dmac80 on Mar 11, 2018 18:23:59 GMT -5
So they’re saying Syracuse is first four out. How much shall we bet the nose picking Cheater is sitting there on selection Sunday saying they deserved their 11 seed? That program makes me sick BUMP
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Post by dex on Mar 12, 2018 8:46:44 GMT -5
Syracuse sneaks in
Most bracketologists outside of upstate New York had already essentially ruled Syracuse dead in the water earlier this week. Conventional wisdom had them sitting on the back side of the bubble, unlikely to see their logo pop up on the Selection Show. The committee disagreed and awarded the Orange an 11 seed with a trip to the First Four.
The Orange finished the ACC season 8-10 and lost in the conference tournament quarterfinals. They went just 3-7 versus fellow tournament teams in the ACC. Syracuse’s best wins out of conference were a non-tournament team (Maryland) and the MAC champion Buffalo Bulls, both in the comfy confines of the Carrier Dome. Those are not the kind of wins that typically earn a bid for an at-large team.
When comparing Syracuse’s resume to some of those left out, it’s hard to see why the committee chose the Orange.
Shane McNicholl
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Post by dex on Mar 12, 2018 8:49:10 GMT -5
Notre Dame and USC snubbed Southern California had to have thought they were fairly safe after finishing second in the Pac-12 in the regular season, and then fighting their way to the conference tournament championship. The Pac-12 is a less deadly conference than the ACC, but it is hard to justify taking Syracuse, who was under .500 in ACC play, over the Trojans, who were 12-6 in conference. USC won eight games versus KenPom top 100 teams away from their home floor. Syracuse won just three such games. Notre Dame, meanwhile, was just 6-9 without All-American candidate Bonzie Colson in the lineup, thanks to an unfortunate injury. With Colson, the Irish won the Maui Invitational and looked impressive early on. Notre Dame even beat Syracuse, at the Carrier Dome, without Colson! To see the Orange in and the Irish out isn’t easy to explain. An historically bad snub: larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/usc-trojans-historically-bad-ncaa-tournament-snub/432567
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Post by johnnypc on Mar 12, 2018 9:14:25 GMT -5
Syracuse past success plus all the media members who are grads got SU an invite.
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Post by thewalk on Mar 12, 2018 9:27:14 GMT -5
Lville, Ok St, Usc all mentioned in the fbi investigation probably didn't help.
And I could give a chit whether cuse is in or out but neither kenpom and conf record are criteria used by the committee.
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Post by dex on Mar 12, 2018 9:30:18 GMT -5
Yes this version of the Sad-Sack Committee has devalued conference record a little and they are wrong
FBI investigation should matter but I doubt it....ncaa and the conferences themselves don't give a chit or many coaches and teams would have been banned
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Post by birdman on Mar 12, 2018 10:36:56 GMT -5
So many of the bubble teams are so close to each other that you really have to split hairs. Syracuse in fact was #68, ND #69, so we are really talking no discernible difference between the two . When it comes down to matters like that, they typically favor teams with better strengths of schedule, especially in the non conference. Right or wrong, they almost seem to reward teams for simply playing those games, the result is often inconsequential. Syracuse had a strong non conference SOS, even if they lost their marquee games such as Kansas. They also picked up a road win at Miami and beat fellow bubble team Louisville away on the road. ND lost at home to Ball St, and that was before Bonzi got hurt. They did have the nice neutral court win over Wichita St, but apparently that wasn't enough. If you play a weaker non conference SOS, you better win every game you play because you have no margin for error. That explains why Alabama is a 9 seed with 15 losses, while Oklahoma St was left out. Don't buy into theories like teams are put in for ratings, or other factors, it really is all about the data, even if there are often conflicting results.
Think about it from our perspective. We were a 6 seed in 2015, largely because we played our best non conference SOS that year. We beat ND on a neutral court, who got a 3 seed, and then lost at #1 UK, so those 2 games alone really inflated our numbers. It is so critical to play a tough schedule because there is little downside to it. I know giving up home games means losing revenue, but there is so much to gain from a postseason perspective. Getting into quality tournaments in November helps, but I would also like to see us go on the road play top quality competition and stop scheduling UMass. Even if we have to do what we did with UK (one road, one neutral game), sign up and do it.
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mikemc
Friar Fanatic
Posts: 3,241
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Post by mikemc on Mar 12, 2018 11:07:34 GMT -5
The SEC won't send a team to the second weekend of the tournament Let's walk through this: Davidson over Kentucky (see above). New Mexico State over Auburn in the second round (see above). The Loyola-Chicago team (40 percent from the 3-point line) that Tennessee will see in the second round has played above the expectations attached to its seed and will shock the world with a win over the Vols. Ed Cooley's Providence team just defeated Villanova, Xavier, Creighton and Marquette within the past month and can handle an oft-undisciplined Texas A&M squad in the first round. Alabama got hot in the SEC tournament, but Justin Robinson and Virginia Tech will hound Collin Sexton and win. Florida can hit the 3-ball, but scoring inside has been the challenge with this undersized squad. The Gators could go cold against the St. Bonaventure-UCLA winner in the First Four. In the second round, Michael Porter Jr. and Missouri will fall to a Xavier team that's one of the nation's most talented and scrappiest squads. And Purdue will dominate Arkansas, a team that has lost multiple games by double digits this season, in the second round with its size in the post and its ability to hit 3-pointers. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22731472/bold-predictions-acc-watches-final-four-sec-done-early-more-things-watch-2018-ncaa-tournament....gotta love friartown...
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Post by dmac80 on Mar 12, 2018 12:54:19 GMT -5
USC had a 34 RPI and SOS 39 and 23 wins and finished 2nd in their conf reg season and tourney. WOW.
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Post by thewalk on Mar 12, 2018 13:00:49 GMT -5
ucla at home was a killer but also only 2 top 50Ws vs Cuse with 4 and sn SOS of 19.
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Post by dmac80 on Mar 12, 2018 13:09:42 GMT -5
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Post by dmac80 on Mar 12, 2018 13:11:59 GMT -5
but yes the only difference is top 50. As we know you need more than 2 wins vs the top 50 to be safe, in addition to RPI and SOS.
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Post by birdman on Mar 12, 2018 13:22:55 GMT -5
USC beat 2 teams who made the tournament all season: Cal State Fullerton and New Mexico St. They went 0-7 versus Arizona, Arizona St, UCLA, Texas A&M and Oklahoma, and they also lost at home to Princeton.
You can't just look at Quad 1 wins, top 50 wins, or whatever other raw number you want to assess, you have to dig deeper and see who those were against. Beating Xavier and Kansas, like Arizona St did carries far more weight than beating the likes of Oregon, Utah and Middle Tennessee like USC did. Also, conference record means nothing, and I don't think it should, especially in a conference where you don't play a double round robin. USC only played the Arizona schools once in the regular season for example, so their in conference SOS would be lower than their competitors. The committee clearly looked at every game equally and decided not to hold poor finishes against Arizona St and Oklahoma. You will never satisfy all parties since everyone has different metrics that they value more significantly, but there is a perfectly justifiable case to exclude USC.
It can't be stressed enough, play a tough non conference schedule and win or lose, you significantly increase your odds and margin for error for making the tournament field.
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Post by friar71 on Mar 12, 2018 17:20:48 GMT -5
When asked about AZ.ST. and Oklahoma, Rasmussen said they looked at the full body of work and both of them played well in the 1st half of the season. That is different from what we have heard over the years about the importance of finishing the season on a high. I believe nly 1 member of the selection committee had a basketball background. Even mid-majors that make the field often get snubbed in other ways. Last year, Saint Mary’s was 13th in BPI, while Wichita State was 15th (15th and 8th, respectively, in the KenPom rankings). Their reward? A 7 seed for Saint Mary’s, against fellow mid-major VCU, and a 10 seed for Wichita State, against another mid-major in Dayton. Not only were both teams massively underseeded, they were pitted against other nonpower conference schools to clear one of them out of the way, preventing all four from possibly upsetting a blue blood. It turns out, all Wichita State had to do to shine in the committee’s eyes was join a bigger conference. After going 31-5 and having a Top 10 KenPom ranking last year, the Shockers got a 10 seed. They moved to the American Conference and went 25-7 this year, and are currently ranked 20th by the same KenPom ratings. This year, they’re a 4-seed. What a lesson for the rest of college basketball that is. wtop.com/sports-columns/2018/03/ncaa-selection-committee-exposes-its-own-hypocrisy-once-again/
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Post by FriarNut on Mar 12, 2018 17:35:19 GMT -5
ucla at home was a killer but also only 2 top 50Ws vs Cuse with 4 and sn SOS of 19. Still.....12-6 and second place and they made it to their tourney final....they should be in over Cuse imo
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